Growing with Joy Robson of Data for Good
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Joy Robson, MBA shares a strong sense of optimism about the "power of data to serve humanity". And, along with thousands of like-minded spirits within the global #dataforgood movement, she aspires to be a "data scientist with a conscience". In October 2012, Joy sensed a shift in the force — the movement was about to take off — and the wind beneath its wings, Open Data, was reaching a crescendo of influence. The timing was right for Joy to build something unique within Canada and with the help of countless keen and talented volunteers, the National Not-for-Profit known as Data for Good (Canada) launched and is now approaching its 10-year anniversary. Blending her technical skills with her social sector awareness allows Joy to apply Data/AI/ML — and the powerful insights they provide — against the many challenges that face the social sector.
Episode Transcript
Daniel
So welcome, Joy. Thanks so much for coming out to be on the Growth for Good podcast.
Joy
Thanks!
Daniel
Super excited to have you. Today we're going to be talking about all things “Data for Good”, which is the name of the organization you're with. I'd love to start off by hearing a bit of your story, to let us know how you got to where you are today.
Joy
Sure, well my education and professional experience are all grounded in data, technical marketing, strategy, analytics, and sort of pioneering new areas of innovation. I've just always been drawn to that space. I enjoy leading people to greener pastures as well. So when you combine that with a sense of civic duty and wanting to give back, you find me where I am today. So it's a nice combination of a lot of things I had done leading up to launching Data for Good.
Daniel
What is your elevator pitch for Data for Good?
Joy
We call Data for Good the Canadian voice for data scientists with a conscience. We operate as a volunteer driven national not-for-profit, so that we can support the social sector on a pro bono basis — because I was drawn to things that the lawyers and doctors are doing, it's like giving back and raising the professional bar for the for their colleagues, and I wanted that for my colleagues as well. So we now have 9 active chapters across the country, and we're approaching 10 years of operations.
Daniel
That's amazing. Congrats. It's always great when you can see something spread and take off. It shows that there's a real need for this. In the worlds of design and branding, there's a lot of organizations that cannot afford large budgets for rebranding or marketing campaigns. And there's some amazing initiatives right now, that are for pro bono. There's such great work being done, we get to share our talents for good. So how did you end up in the sector to begin with? How did you find yourself here?
Joy
Way back in school, there was a group called SAGA — students active and globally aware. I joined that with friends, and we got involved in things like World Vision, UNICEF, and it just started there, in middle school kind of thing. And it never left my system, because I kept wanting to get involved and was always drawn to the sector. So even though I went and did an MBA, and I worked in Fortune 500 corporate North America and corporate global as well, I still had a part of me that was drawn back to the social sector.
Daniel
I love that. I think for a lot of people, it does start in high school or even middle school, but then you kind of drift away, and you may never make your way back to the nonprofit world. So it's awesome to hear that part of your story. Whether you're a nonprofit, a brand or an artist, we're all competing for attention. So what are some things that organizations can do to stand out in this attention economy?
Joy
I believe a lot in user generated content, I think owners care more about what they're engaged with. So when volunteers are empowered to find their own partner organizations, run their own events, and support the issues that actually matter to them personally, I think that in turn makes for much more motivated people — people who are willing to share their precious time and talents. It's the opposite of micromanagement. It's volunteer empowerment. And when you have so-called brand advocates, or empowered creators who really care about what they're engaged with, then I think you have a winning formula. I speak like that, and I sound like a marketer. But then I think about it, it's so true in the volunteer driven sector, so why would someone be motivated, if they don't actually care? Why would they be giving their time? And in our case, so much talent, like our volunteers are so talented — why would they do that? If they weren't empowered, and they weren't making their own choices?
Daniel
The same is true in corporate brands, as it is with volunteering and social causes. I've seen you on podcasts — that's why you're here today. Personal branding is really important in this space as well. What role has your personal brand and network played in your role in the sector?
Joy
I'd say it has played a significant role because I was already at an executive level in my own career, when I went looking for board members and co-founders for Data for Good. So I looked for people who would balance out what I brought to the organization and people who had talents and abilities that were stronger or better than mine, and in certain areas — and so I knew I couldn't build and grow Data for Good alone and I really didn't want to. I did hit the ground running because I had already been working for a lot of years and I had a pretty good network.
Daniel
And you were able to kind of leverage that and pull it over into nonprofit.
Joy
Not everyone cared what I was doing, too. But some people were like, “That's awesome. How can I help?” And so it did have an initial momentum from that.
Daniel
You've been doing this for almost 10 years now, but did it take a while to associate this with your identity?
Joy
Ah, yeah. Part of me says, "I shouldn't be the brand, because I'm, I'm mortal”, right, I want the brand to be immortal. And so although a brand needs someone to connect with it, or people to connect with it especially to give it personality, when it's launching — ultimately, you want a brand to be self-sustaining, and to have its own identity. So my goal is that the brand is stronger than any ego or personality, or the charisma of the founders, I want the brand to be stronger than that.
Daniel
What better way to do that then have chapters where there's other people taking ownership and leading that as well.
Joy
Next Generation leaders. Yeah, exactly.
Daniel
We know that in the nonprofit world, there's always going to be challenges. What are some of the challenges that you've had to deal with in your role at any stage in your career, or specifically, with Data for Good?
Joy
With Data for Good, I would say that we were cut from sort of the startup cloth, like lean mean, and hungry. And so there was a lot of early days, where I would say turnover, and maybe even some burnout was a factor. So we can't go back and change time. That's just that was the genesis of how we emerged. And so now we're more established not for profit, was a bit more maturity to the organization. And and what we, you know, what we do and how we do it, there's some more process, there's some more guidelines, I'd say that, you know, when you realize you're at a crossroads, don't be afraid to go back to the drawing board, like what's the harm in that was? What's the harm, there's no harm, you have to think fresh? And and know, you know, tackle the issue and be willing to come up with or hear new ideas from others? How else can you break through to the next level?
Daniel
It's true. A lot of organizations are mission driven. And they have that in mind, but they may not be open to changing the tactics and the approach. So I love that you mentioned it's it's so important to revisit.
Joy
I think it's because from marketing and advertising, and youth culture focus. I'm always like, “come on, what's new, what's fresh, up and coming”. And that's helpful, really helpful.
Daniel
It's huge. The sector definitely needs that. When it comes to celebrating your success, and showcasing impact, I think that's a huge part of what we do in this space. What are one or two recent wins that you could share? I would love to know what you consider that.
Joy
Okay, you may appreciate that. I don't know if others would appreciate it as much. But I really enjoyed when we got a new logo. And when a fresh website, we started to look very polished to the outside world. And being in startup mode in the early stages. You know, it had its perks. But I've spent many years also working for Fortune 500 Best Practice organizations with deep pockets. And so it felt good to see Data for Good get fancy. I was like, “wow, we're really growing up now, aren't we?” and that felt good. But in terms of impact, we aim to produce case studies that showcase the work that goes on via our data, thoughts and our micro projects. Each partnership with each fantastic organization, I think we're approaching now,, great, amazing organizations across the country doing such important work and the results in the insights from every single engagement. We do try to document it. It's important. So we do try to produce those case studies to showcase it.
Daniel
Case studies are huge. What are the formats you use for these case studies? Are they articles? Are they blog posts?
Joy
We do try and share them through our channels. But in terms of documenting them, we didn't force fit a template on anybody. I think the case study templates are pretty well known. What was your problem statement? How did you address it? What's the conclusion and next steps? So if we can add visuals, like data visualizations (huge in our space), including any data is a bonus. And naturally, some of our volunteers will also want to look at GitHub and see some of the actual programming and coding that might have gone into working with the data. All that's out there in varying degrees over these 80+ projects. And at the end of every event, we always host a wrap up presentation, which for me feels like a celebration because of all the work that's gone into producing the event and all the work that went in over the weekend — and then to have the not for profit stakeholders sit and listen to all are grateful Volunteers presenting their insights and the work they did. That's to me a success, that wrap up moment. And then we typically hear from them after that, just how grateful they are, how much of a gap we've filled, and what they're going to hopefully do with the results.
Daniel
That's amazing. I think there's a lot of organizations that do such great work, but it's behind the scenes. And they don't often get to that event. You've given some great tips on how organizations can showcase that through case studies through events, through recognition, I think we got to continue to celebrate our success, right?
Joy
We have to keep our own selves motivated. Yeah, absolutely.
Daniel
You have all this amazing work to look back on as well. So when it comes to the more technical side, what are some of the online platforms that have worked best for you in your organization?
Joy
We've used everything that we could get our hands on — Meetup was our original organization tool, and we pay for that, but it's not an onerous amount. The free platforms, of course, we went on those right away to get the word out. Now it's sort of well, “where do we go next is, Twitter really going to change a lot? Should we rely more on Tik Tok or LinkedIn?” And so social media, I think is a necessary evil, it does help spread the word. And we all need to do that to gain volunteers, have influence, build brands and seek support. I'm grateful for the platforms we've used. And they've been crucial, especially when we couldn't do our in person events. It was like, “Oh, what a lifeline they all prove to be”, but still face to face communication is where it's at, in my opinion — we all crave that part of life and Data for Good started out in part, to create a constructive space for face to face in person for those who were already pre pandemic working from home or remote, or what were one person with their skill set in a shop. They didn't have colleagues to connect with because they were out of university, there was only one data scientist or machine learning expert on staff. And this was a way for them to network and connect with colleagues and peers.
Daniel
So you can establish that sense of community for them early on, which is incredible. And now that it's fully remote, there are people starting roles that don't actually have a team in person. It is exciting to build that community. And now it's across the country, which is great.
So let’s talk about some of the things you've learned, or best practices when it comes to marketing and communications in the sector. You had a corporate corporate background as well. Are there any other marketing communications tips you'd like to share?
Joy
Well, I love the phrase (I don't know who said it) “a candle loses no flame by lighting another”. It's so simple. It's so beautiful. And it's very true for us as volunteers, that our volunteers continue to burn brightly we sort of we pass torches, we keep the flame alive, and light more candles and, in the dark, if you want to be metaphorical, but data kind shared their light with us.
Daniel
They were the inspiration.
Joy
And now we both burn brighter, you can see them wearing Data for Good shirts. And we all consistently referenced them as our inspiration. The people who want to get back in this world and want to feel good about it, the experience of donating, volunteering, and whatever else they're doing to share their light, it ought to be rewarding for them. Keep it hopeful, keep it purposeful and impactful and stay positive. So that does translate into like the brand voice. The brand positioning and the messaging right. So I follow DataKind’s Jake’s lead, he has always used humor. And I've tried to do that as well, because what we deal with sometimes is either academically complex, or socially heavy. And so to have that ability to inject some levity is part of what I wanted the brand to do, and continue to do. Even when you know joy, the co founder is gone. I want the brand, maintain that.
Daniel
That's a great inspiration for other organizations, when they're using their data when the actual charities and nonprofits are trying to share the stats and share these important learnings, how can they do that in a way that's gonna evoke emotion? One of those emotions, of course, is humor, and people do remember that as well. So I love that you brought that into it.
Since the pandemic, which we know transformed a lot of industries, how have you seen some of the marketing efforts change from different organizations? How has it affected your work?
Joy
Well, demographics and segmentation and things like that. These aren't new to marketers, but I've heard that right now we have 6 distinct generations at work in the world right now that have major differences of opinion and outlook about what needs to happen next. And I happen to feel that I'm smack dab in the middle of them all, because I'm not too old, or not especially young either. Having conversations with these unique segments is like gymnastics right now. There's so many different needs to meet right now. And so I think the best bet is to think strategically about where you can invest your efforts most effectively. And that's a hard call right now. That's each organization, at a governance level and a strategic level needs to ask themselves, “where do we want to invest going forward? Maybe this worked for us in the past. Maybe this will work for us today. But we have to think about our future”. So it is a tough period of time to be in leadership. It's doable, but it takes a bit of gymnastics.
Daniel
And it has been a great time to reassess for sure. I think organizations are looking at what worked. I heard a stat recently, I was at an event for the AFP conference for fundraisers. And they were talking about how significantly more effective it is to do online fundraising events, for example. So like online auctions, as opposed to the in person ones. And they had seen some very compelling stats of how many more results were driven by the online auction. So those may be things they choose to continue post pandemic, and I think there's learnings that people have adopted that will stick for sure.
You did touch on this when it comes to budgeting and fundraising. But for your organization, it's a volunteer driven organization, I'm assuming that budget-wise for marketing, it's all word of mouth. Is that how it operates?
Joy
Well, coming from a marketing background, I learned early how valuable word of mouth is, and referrals and repeat customers and things like that. So when starting Data for Good I thought,, that's the most effective thing anyway. So let's start right there. And keep focusing on that as the priority. And being a non soliciting not for profit means that we seek out in-kind support, and donations. And that has also proved valuable to us. Of course, we don't move as fast as a corporate environment does with their marketing budgets and their timelines. But overall, I appreciate the incremental organic growth that we've achieved. So yes, it's not the same. It's not the same when you have a big budget, and you have a particular campaign calendar, you've got marching orders, right, this is different.
Daniel
And you have the power of people. It sounds like it's more of a great grassroots community driven effort, which, again, is just as powerful as ad dollars on social media.
One of my goals for this show is to help be a resource to different organizations, people in the social good space. I would love to know what is one source of inspiration, whether it's content, a book, a thought leader, that that you've turned to.
Joy
I’d be remiss if I didn't mention the original DataKind, tons of inspiration from DataKind. Lately, I've enjoyed what I've been hearing through my kids. I have a 12 year old and a 13 year old and there's the super clever shenanigans of people like Mark Rober and Mr. Beast I like their Team Trees campaigns. They were very energizing and very bright candles burning in the desert. So for the ocean cleanup project, they brought a lot of attention to that. I mean, wow, if you look at what the ocean cleanup project is actually doing — they're not talking the talk, they’re walking the walk massively right now. Literally cleaning up the Pacific Ocean Garbage Patch.
Daniel
Incredible. And it's happening. So that's definitely inspiring. With the trees project, I found that inspiring too as they exceeded their goals. And you see this community of people coming together to all promote it as well. But that just shows you the power of social media and using Tech for Good.
Joy
Well, I impressed my 13 year old son because I had heard about team trees on my own. And then a couple years later, he was like, Mom, you should know more about this. Trying to tell me about it. I was like, actually, I think I even donated towards it. Well, major points. I won a lot of points with my 13 year old
Daniel
Wrapping it up here, I'd love to know one piece of advice that you would give to leaders in the nonprofit or charitable sector.
Joy
Well, it's throwing back to that metaphor “protect your flame” because the world needs your light and and we can't let any more candles if our own flame goes out so it's it's almost an overriding “take care of yourselves people”, because the world needs us needs all of us.
Daniel
Yeah, one of my colleagues Hamza wrote a book about burnout and he talks about the concept of “burn bright, not out”. That's just a reminder to us — you can be stronger when you're taking care of yourself. That's a great reminder. What is something that you're excited about coming up?
Joy
I’m hoping to go somewhere sunny now that everybody's traveling again. I went to Dubai, it was still bumpy back in March. But hoping travel is just getting smoother and smoother. Fingers crossed. Have you gone somewhere lately?
Daniel
I went to New York, it was exciting to see the city kind of coming back to life (after they got pretty badly impacted by the pandemic early on). So I got to travel to stay inspired and make new connections.
Well, thanks so much for joining us, Joy. Everyone can check out https://dataforgood.ca. I'm sure you'll continue to grow your chapters and make more of an impact!
